2006-07-29 [Azuri]: What about the fact that alot of them are poorly written or completly off like the motocycle one there are entire wiki's for disproving the entire storyWhats Wrong With This?Who HATES the motercycle story?. Alot of them involve sex death or drugs of some form, not exactly the best thing for our youngins to be reading

2006-07-29 [iippo]: Hmm, that wouldn't sink with Hedda, to be honest. He's quite fed up with people going "omg we have to protect the children" and usually replies with "I'm not their mother." But it could be added all the same in some way that doesn't sound overly motherly.

2006-07-29 [Azuri]: Yea. Also is it just me or do those little pastie quiz's give away some information that could be used for stalkage....me thinks thats not good for anyone

2006-07-29 [Stray Kitty]: What about the I Never stuff with all the stupid questions?

2006-07-29 [iippo]: Hmm, I don't know. Those at least change for everyone and aren't copied per say, but they are quite boring to read too, and I only read if a friend has done it (in a diary or wiki or such). Suggestions?

2006-07-29 [Moonlit Serenade]: If you were going to get rid of the questions of I Never, then all the other questionaires should be offed, too. However, those questions do provide insight to the member's personality, likes, and dislikes. So there really isn't sufficient reason to ban them, other than the fact they're annoying. I fill them out when I'm bored, too, but I leave them in my diary. I'm making a wiki to try and help with it. Something like, "How to turn a quiz into an intelligent description". I've gotten my outline for it mostly done, and if you think it would be a good link, I can give you the wiki page when I'm finished with it. That way, it could encourage people to change those questionaires into

2006-07-29 [Moonlit Serenade]: descriptions that are more appealing to read.

2006-07-29 [Stray Kitty]: Okay. That would be much better than reading through those insane lists of things.

2006-07-29 [Aradon Templar]: *cheers for more common sense in Elftown being verbalized/wiki-ized*

2006-07-30 [Azuri]: *nods in agreement* I could deal with quiz thingies if they were well done and interesting

2006-08-06 [Sunrose]: - Chain messages aren't allowed, because they affect you personally: it's more difficult to ignore them, because they arrive in your inbox. If 11000 members sent chain messages, your inbox would be cramped with crap. This is not the case with text on peoples houses.
- The useless 'text' we remove is as often copied as the sexual limmericks are. They are also considered ASCII art, because it are symbols used as decoration.

When ASCII art was banned, some Guards who wanted it banned promised to help removing it. In the end it were those who never wanted the rule, who had to do most of that work.
Considering the copied texts the same problem occurs: Who will end up doing all the work?
And then there's [Hedda]'s reply: He doesn't want to see every single thing forbidden, because it is a bit annoying to some. Making our rules really strict will make people leave. Considering the fact that Elftown is not just for 'elitist' artists and writers, but for hangarounds as well, the rules should cater to both groups. Instead of chasing hangarounds away.

2006-08-06 [Sunrose]: It's not that difficult to ignore such a story on someone's house. Or if it really bugs you, to try and inspire that member to write their own texts. The problem I see is that these petitions never really stop. As soon as 1 thing actually gets banned, a new petition about something else starts. In that sense I think everyone needs to relax a little bit and leave a bit of freedom :s

2006-08-06 [Moonlit Serenade]: Most often, when you try to 'inspire' other members, no matter how nice you are about it, it ends up with a hissy fight and a Guard telling you that you should have gone to them first. I, myself, don't want to see them banned, persay. Maybe just moved to a wiki that you could link to. I think a description should be left to describing oneself. Not a lot of well... stupid pasted things.

2006-08-07 [iippo]: I, myself, don't want to see them banned, persay. Maybe just moved to a wiki that you could link to.
Yes, that's the plan I believe. The "ban" refers to the houses only.

2006-08-07 [Azuri]: Could make a offical page for each of them give them good grammer and spelling(Gasp! I know impossible right?) and then they can replace the story with the link and walla, magic i know. Its either that or the gaurds can when they go to delete the story out replace it with the link to the appropriate page , though i duno if that would be too much work :/

2006-08-07 [Moonlit Serenade]: It really would be a lot of work. Think of all the links they'd have to remember for each story. And if a memeber had more than one of them, even worse. The members should be responsible for it.

2006-08-07 [iippo]: The whole thing could be approached more like the bio-limitation thing was: so people with long bios didn't have to cut theirs down, but you weren't supposed to (or couldn't even, actually) make a new long bio. The only difference is that preventing this can't be done technically, like the bio-limit is.
More and more ET people these days don't mind obeying rules that make sense (like the UAR). So if they are told "look, please don't paste those things in your scripo", some might actually go "ok, I won't, I'll write something else." And this wiki tries to make sensible reasons why they shouldn't be pasted.
Baby steps y'know. If you think too far ahead ("omg who will remove them all?") on any project, you'll get depressed.

2006-08-07 [iippo]: It's good that people get discussing this wiki, pointing out what works and what doesn't, suggesting things etc... :) It's a long process.

2006-08-07 [Sunrose]: [Moonlit Serenade]: I don't think you understood it. In two cases you are told to go to the Guards immediately: When a member clearly violates the UAR or when you are randomly insulted.
However, when you approach someone about their 'stupid pasted thing', you are approaching them about something that does not actually violate the UAR. If you then notice someone responds hostile towards your suggestion, it is better to leave it alone. It's no use trying to force it down their throats. If you try doing that, undoubtedly Guards will be called upon to settle the matter. It also often depends on the tone you approach them with.
If you are planning on sending suggestions, you have to be able to handle negative responses from unwilling members and walk away from them. And you have to be content with the fact that you will only be able to change some people, not everyone you've tried it with.

2006-08-07 [Sunrose]: [iippo]: The bio-limit is kind of different though, because it is done automatically. When you discuss about removing texts manually, you have to take logistics into account. Otherwise you're making a rule without means to enforce it.
Unless this discussion is more about how we can get members to change things themselves..

2006-08-08 [Stray Kitty]: And what if they only have the motorcycle story or some other stupid pasted thing in their bio and no description? For example: [jennsbelle] just has the motocycle story and nothing else. Wouldn't it be better if she just had a link and a better bio.

2006-08-09 [Sunrose]: Of course it would be better, but that doesn't change what I said..

2006-08-10 [Kiddalee]: Can we not change the UAR to include written pieces?

2006-08-10 [Moonlit Serenade]: No lie. I was plagarized, and no one did anything. Just because it's writing doesn't mean it isn't art. After all, their is a place for writers on Elfwood.

2006-08-10 [Sunrose]: Actually when an Elftowner reports writing that was stolen/copied from them, Guards do take action. IF we have sufficient proof.
And you seemed to have missed out on the already made point that [Hedda] is opposed to more rules. He pretty much has the final say.
Random copied texts, songlyrics and texts that belong to non-Elftowners will not be put in the rules. Despite that fact, some Guards have taken the effort from time to time to message members and tell them to credit the author.

[Moonlit Serenade]: The member you reported was actually spoken to. You provided no proof that you were the original author, so we had to find a way first to solve this situation. The text on her house now is not like yours, if you had actually bothered to look.
Your report was made the 27th. The reported member changed the text a few days after. We're not personal slaves, we do the reports when we have time. Difficult ones will be discussed and thus will take some more time, since we prefer to do our job as best we can. I'm assuming that is also what you'd prefer us to do.

2006-08-10 [iippo]: This isn't the right place to solve issues you have or have had with the guards, so now we'll consider that matter solved.

2006-08-10 [Kiddalee]: How is a random story pasted from the net any different from a random picture pasted from the net?

2006-08-10 [Sunrose]: In terms of randomosity there is no difference.
Images however take longer to load, they tend to be more annoying as it is more difficult to ignore them and they are easier to remove.
Text loads in a blink of an eye, you can decide to not read it and it has to be manually removed.

Then there is the fact, which I have already stated before might I add, that [Hedda] doesn't want a rule against it, simply because he doesn't like adding more rules (for also previously stated reasons). He drew the line there. If someone doesn't like that, then they'd have take it up with him.

2006-08-10 [Kiddalee]: So the problem has more to do with technical aspects of the data than ethics.

2006-08-10 [Sunrose]: The technical aspects AND the fact that [Hedda] doesn't want to bog Elftown down with more rules. He already dislikes some of the rules we have, such as the ASCII rule. I think he only agreed to add it, because he got tired of the endless heavy crew fights that were fought about adding it or not.

2006-08-11 [Kiddalee]: How does adding a rule bog Elftown down? Besides, it's only natural for me to argue that seeing all these memes in peoples' houses bog Elftown down more.

2006-08-11 [Sunrose]: Because it makes many people feel that Elftown has too many rules, according to [Hedda]'s reasoning.
No they don't, they hardly take any space.

2006-08-11 [Kiddalee]: I wasn't talking about how much space they take up in terms of data. I was talking about how they give the wrong impression to users visiting the houses and adversely affect their sense of community.

2006-08-11 [Sunrose]: How is that?

2006-08-11 [Stray Kitty]: Well, when you enter a house and see a lot of pasted unoriginal stuff, it doesn't go with the whole writer/artist/Elfwood hangaround thing. Some people here don't even know what Elfwood is.

2006-08-12 [Moonlit Serenade]: I thought Elfpack was created for people who don't like all the rules? If there is Elfpack for the lack of Rules and Elftown for some rules but not for serious art lovers, then why not make yet another site for people who do want more rules because they think this is all absurd and are tired of people who just want to hang around to cyber? And [Stray Kitty] is right. Elftown used to be the only site like this that wasn't blocked by our school's filter. So a lot of people made accounts so they could chat during school, not wanting to do much else. Most of them had no idea what Elfwood was and didn't care. Eventually, someone got caught, so it no longer is available in my district. But in a lot of other states and districts, it's probably the same deal.

2006-08-12 [Azuri]: I know I could get in threw my school computers but i had a account long before I found that out.

2006-08-12 [Moonlit Serenade]: Of course. Not everyone is here to chat at school. That's not what I meant. But half the people in my school have accounts ONLY because it could get past the security for a while. A lot of people are using this place as a cheap and easy message board or chat room, with no care for art. And a lot of them have never even heard of Elfwood. That's all I meant by the last part. A lot of people aren't even considered Elfwood hangarounds.

2006-08-12 [Sunrose]: Elftown isn't just for Elfwood hangarounds. You don't have to be a serious artlover either and chatting is OK.
Elfpack almost doesn't have any rules, Elftown has quite a few and there don't need to be more. If you want more, you can go to Elfwood.
The applicationsystem has cleaned up Elftown for a great deal. If you don't think that's true, try to find UAR-violations and report them :)

2006-08-13 [Azuri]: This is very true, over the last year or so people have been working hard to get rid of the people who arent good for the community. Of course its still going to take a while but we are the right road.

2006-08-13 [Sunrose]: We've always been working hard O_O
We however would've never been able to do what the applicationsystem does. Consequently we actually have less work now than we had before.

2006-08-16 [Kiddalee]: Elftown doesn't need to be for Elfwood hangarounds, but Elftown hangarounds, being Elftown hangarounds, should still have something to do with the character of the community.

2006-08-16 [Sunrose]: Elftown is about fantasy and sci-fi art, it doesn't say you have to make it yourself. It also allows other interests (see the interests that you can select on your house).

2006-08-23 [Moonlit Serenade]: Yyyeaaaah, this was mentioned.... long ago (Only two pages, but it was a while back)! Anyway, if you're still interested, here you are. 
How to turn a quiz into an intelligent description

2006-08-23 [Kiddalee]: Though Elftown allows hangarounds, one must note the difference between people who hang around as a part of the community and people who hang around doing nothing but sapping the spirit away from the community.

2006-08-24 [Sunrose]: I think that also depends on how you personally perceive hangarounds and the community. My sense of community is not affected because a non artistical person sent me a hi-message, for instance.
What I actually found true is that a community 'needs' something to kick against, it seems to make people come together and form a tighter group. Like gossip actually has a function in real life, if you study sociology.

2007-07-07 [Sunrose]: <news:Change to the Uploading Art Rules - written art!>